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gtrplayer
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Since things around here are relatively quiet, I figured I throw a poll up just for the heck of it. Plus, I really am cous as to what other people think in regards to the increased prevalence of the street opiate that begins with H, but we do not mention on this site. Remember, there are no right or wrong answers, and I, as well as other admins, have no way of knowing which answer you choose.

Also, once you complete the one question poll, feel free (even encouraged) to use this thread to state what your feelings are on the matter. You do not have to inform the entire board of which choice you made, but you are more than free to do so. For instance, I voted Yes.

I will admit that it was me who made the poll, but the poll is not reflective of any thoughts of any member, including the sites founders, except my own. While I do consider this question an important one, I feel we all are a bit frustrated that, as legitimate pain patients, even we have fallen under scrutiny by the DEA. I will save my reasons as to why I voted how I did for another post in this thread-assuming the poll gets more than 3 answers. Come on, we are all a vocal bunch here! Don't be afraid to answer the 1 question poll, and give your opinion in this thread. We actually want to hear from you. Just please, avoid using the street name of H, as it is frowned upon by most of the admins.

Post away, Pharmers!!!

goat
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re:

  I have never seen the stuff.  I was born in southern Ohio and it is a big big problem in Appalachia.  
Just read about a town that had 28 ods in one day.
  People are using narcan as a crutch to continue using.  Some needing multiple injections.
totaly enabaling the addict.  And now the dealers are adding fentaynl or Carfentanil.   
  At least 6 women went missing from my hometown and 4 were found dead with opiates in their system. 

 It's bad out there.

gtrplayer
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Fentanyl laced H

Right you are, again, Goat. What on Earth makes these people- the addicts and the dealers, ever feel that they need to add fentanyl or carfentanyl to an already extremely potent drug? The only thing that makes less sense than adding either of those drugs to H is that once addicts hear of a potent form of H that has OD'd multiple people in their vicinity, instead of staying away from that source and avoiding dealing with those who sold the laced drug at all costs, they actual seek out the source of the drug.

Luckily, here in my hometown, which is absolutely riddled with H addicts who were once pill addicts, the price of Narcan has entered the OTC market at an extremely high price point, thus making it harder for addicts to obtain. Just this past week, the Tribune ran an article stating the price of a single use Narcan vial is going for between 40 and 55 dollars. I don't know many drug addicts, but I think it's safe to say that if they have 40 or 50 dollars to their name, that money is already earmarked for a different substance.

Also, I could not agree with you more about Narcan being a crutch. While saving lives is great and all (insensitive statement incoming), at some point Darwinism has to take effect and rid this horrible problem. Sure, some, and I mean a very few, will actively seek out help for their problem and I wish them the absolute best in their recovery. However, now that narcan is available, fewer and fewer people are even going to consider rehab as an alternative because they figure, "why quit when I can continue to use and just inject some narcan if things go bad?"

I have never been to rehab, nor have I ever needed it. However, I think what keeps most addicts from seeking treatment, aside from lack of insurance and the prohibitive cost, is the fear of going through withdrawals. They fail to realize that a good facility will not just throw them into a room to detox (though I have heard of it happening in rare instances). When done correctly, through an accredited facility, the detox usually involves the use of medications, such as phenobarbital or seconal to keep the patient relaxed, as well as short term use of Suboxone or Zubsolv, or any other opiate replacement therapy drug.

DyBNaps
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I have been on opiates for

I have been on opiates for several years legally through pm, and over the last year my office has lowered my meds by 50%, from what i was on that was working for my pain. Each time getting told that although I do great with the contract, my pain, and activity level, the DEA is making it hard for me, and other patients to receive the meds we need. The office still takeing new patients, but seems to lean more towards patients they can do procedures on, as they have a surgical center in the same office.

Even though my meds have been cut, I have never thought [filtered word] was where I should get release from the pain that has arrose from the cut back. Addicts will find a way to get drugs, no matter what they orriginally started on, but becasue white people, as I am are dying, than we need to as a nation get something done now. But when crack was huge in the 80's and 90's in the low income area, we didn;t create treament centers, we locked people up. The one bad thing about America is the government thinks they need to control everything, and they will run every Dr out of business of PM, until we have no one left that will take us on a patients. No GP is going to go back to prescribing meds for pain anymore, and risk their lively hood, so we will all be lumped together, because the way the governement treats us.

BeavisMom62
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Where?

What was the question? I didn't see a poll.

goat
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good to see you
gaucho
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The Drug we Don't Mention - Appalachia, Scotland and adulteratio

So, Goat my friend, you have never even SEEN it, which (as someone residing in Scotland) I would have thought almost impossible; I also take the New York Times (!!) and any of you who read the edition of Monday past will have seen the prominent article about recent ODs in Cincinatti and the discovery of the presence of carfentanil in samples and in autopsies; the majority of post-mortem examinations and toxicology tests don't even test for fentanyl as a matter of course, let alone its relatives, some of which are even stronger than the rhino- and elephant-incapacitating carfentanil. It is true that most of that substance is made in China, just as it now is that, since Flynn and Lilly ceased Tuinal production and manufacture of amo-, pento- & seco-barbital is at levels which are more in keeping with Research needs than clinical... step up, China; quality of the drugs from there varies incredibly but most reputable manufacturers make top quality APIs, the biggest sellers being alprazolam and pentobarbital, which is used in end-of-life clinics such as Exit and Release, as well as those mediaeval and brutal countries who blatantly ignore world opinion by continuing to have judicial murder as a (vile and immoral) 'sentence' which is carried out by giving the victim a 100x overdose of pentobarbital following an earlier dose of a strong anxiolytic and, just before the murder, a dose of sodium thiopental, which is SUPPOSED to render them unconscious and paralyse them, but has recently, perhaps due to bad batches sourced from Bulgaria, left many poor people awake and in excruciating pain while the process finishes; see New York Times Archives for details and some excellent links.

But I digress.

The answer lies in the fact of its illegality, which puts the trade into the hands of organised crime. The Americans amongst us, think 1920s prohibition of alcohol, the consequences in terms of deaths, blindness, liver & kidney damage &c through adulterated and 'bathtub' home-distilled counterfeit branded drink, (you see the same thing today - and I make no apology here for 'naming and shaming' one of the best known offenders - with International Online Pharmacies such as StarliteRx, which took over the name of one of the most respected, honest, high quality IOPs when the owner had to go on the run from the Philippines DEA, and began selling NOT the previous real branded goods imported from Belgium but cheap, understrength Pakistani meds at massive profits, and 'generic' - for which read 'home made' - alprazolam bars, "Adderall", dexamfetamine sulphate, and (confirmed by Police forensic report when I was unfortunately caught with some of their products which I was 'trying out' for a certain website) '2mg brand name Xanax' which turned out to be 4mg Reboxetine... the situation with The Drug We Don't Mention is much the same. Once the pretty pure (87%) product of #3 Afghan reaches Kosovo on its journey westwards, it will be halved in potency by addition of acetaminophen, more caffeine - which is already present in c.9% proportion to assist with 'running' when smoking, 'chasing' that beetle; errrm, 'dragon' is the 'correct' term used for the process - and other substances like lactose and dextro-mannitol. However, it gets worse and at various points can be cut again with often toxic or otherwise dangerous substances (especially in Scotland & Ireland, where the poorest in Europe is found). The money from all this adulteration ends up with the modern-day Capones and Lucianos of this world.  We are now seeing Central and South American cartels benefitting from the replanting of former [filtered word] fields with poppy, but still sending high quality and potency product (even if it is not quite up to Afghani and Burmese/Thai standards due to acetylisation using Glacial Acetic Acid because of the difficulties in the Americas of sourcing the essential Acetic anhydride) to the US, where adulteration takes place. In the North and North East, Afghan is more readily available, and in a huge turnaround from the days from the 80s and 90s when the US had the poorest street H, the competition now is for the BEST available. Hence the use of fentanyls, which may be purchased for a lot less than 'TDWDM', particularly furanylfentanyl which gives one ???$* of an initial 'rush' to the injecting user, but which also, just as with fentanyl citrate or hydrochloride, is such a high potency substance it is practically impossible to produce a homogeneous mixture, so 'hotspots' & 'coldspots' appear in the powder; anybody injecting a 'baggie' containing 2-3 times the intended amount runs the risk of OD.

The #4 hydrochloride salt is more available in the US than Europe; that is (in its pure, sterile, form made from morphine base by pharmaceutical companies, Macfarlan Smith being the largest such, also making most of the world supply of hydrocodone bitartrate, oxycodone hydrochloride etc.) like the Rx vials of freeze-dried powder which are an essential part of what doctors carry around, especially in heart attack victims and Road Traffic Accidents - note the far higher survival rate in heart attack in countries where it is the first-line analgesic compared with those which use other opiates/oids; it is the only one which does not interfere with the cardioelectric system... it has been demonised when in fact it is quite a benign drug in the world of illicit substances. But NOT when controlled by criminals. As soon as alcohol prohibition ended, so, miraculously, did the deaths from alcohol poisoning, from adulterants and poorly distilled spirit with high methanol content, as did the momey flowing to the organisations who controlled the business, ending their cash cow at a stroke. Exactly the same is happening with 'A Certain Herb' in many places right now, witness so many US States, and Uruguay; exactly the same will happen when diamorphine is also controlled by the state and has quality control and lower cost, and provides a tax break from heaven for the Government as well - if only people could understand what is REALLY true about it and what is tabloid nonsense and what is the result of its prohibition, something which is seen as being political suicide almost everywhere. Then again, at one time, no politician in the US who advocated the legalisation of alcohol could be elected either, and that is a far more dangerous drug!

I apologise, but I am currently working on a paper in which this subject is a prominent part. I don't wish to write what amounts to an abstract of that here, but what I HAVE written should be a good additon to this debate, this thread - reminding people what the real problem is and the solution. And I do not think there is a better simile than the one from nearly 100 years ago now in the States for illustrative purposes.

But note that the US Controlled Substances Act continues to schedule ANY part of ANY plant of the genus Cannabis as Schedule 1, despite the fact that several States even permit regulated recreational usage now.

Every drug is a bit of a paradox when we start discussing them in this manner, and always will be; Temperance movements still exist even now, and you can be sure that anti-cannabis and poppy groups will continue to exist long after they are accepted by the majority as legitimately available recreations.

There are many more things I could say on the subject, but I rest my case on the fact (NY Times again) that of Americans aged between 12 and 18, 9.6% have misused an opiate or opioid during the past 12 months. Mainly Rx oral pills such as oxycodone, hydromorphone, hydrocodone and oxymorphone, the last two of which are US-only (though Bangladesh now has licenced oxymorphone as Ziska O-MORPHON 10mg tabs), second only to the percentage who have used the aforementioned 'Herb'. Opioids are, and always have been and will be, one of the most desirable social relaxants known to man, and only legalisation will change the current, never-before-seen, demonisation of that class of substance, dating back to the International Convention of 1924.

Anyone care to debate the issue further?

I intended to illustrate this post with a couple of images but unfortunately, can not find the correct way to insert an image from my tablet's Gallery onto the site... they are not images which fit into the categories to which I contribute my pictures via email... but do help illustrate the historical aspects of the debate. I'll find a way! Watch this space!

 

 

gaucho
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Naloxone

Here in the UK, there is not the problem of people relying on this drug to reverse an OD, but for accidental OD, it is available free from all needle exchanges, two prefilled syringes at a time, and has proven extremely useful. We do not have a fentanyl-laced H problem here, however with the increased usage of the Deep Web, ther have been a few cases of fentanyl ODs, though carfentanil has never yest been found. What sort of idiot would lace H with such a drug anyway? Its major us is in tranquillising darts for Rhinos and Elephants dor God's sake, and is almost impossible to mix in a homogeneous mixture, making 'hotspots' inevitable. Goat, I take the New York Times and read the article about the spate of ODs in the Cincinatti area. I can not understand the mindst of anyone who woukd do such a thing. And I also believe that furanylfentanyl is being used - a much less dangerous analogue but still dangerous in its own way, being a fqst and short acting drug, used for the initial ruwh when injecting.
Madness, if you ask me.